tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post1478321073870359924..comments2024-01-30T12:44:07.528-08:00Comments on SOVERN NATION: The Right to Remain SilentDoug Sovernhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08282369357166949141noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-399818677047418062011-10-21T20:35:06.919-07:002011-10-21T20:35:06.919-07:00This is my first opportunity to visit this website...This is my first opportunity to visit this website. I found some interesting things and I will apply to the development of my blog. Thanks for sharing useful information.<a href="http://www.hermeshandbagoutlet.com" rel="nofollow">Hermes replica </a> <a href="http://www.hermeshandbagoutlet.com" rel="nofollow">hermes birkin replica</a>hermes birkinhttp://www.hermeshandbagoutlet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-48735024143669061102010-06-22T10:00:14.017-07:002010-06-22T10:00:14.017-07:00Doug, Joe Vecchione (sp?) was the sports editor, t...Doug, Joe Vecchione (sp?) was the sports editor, though Arthur Pincus and Bill Brink were the guys I worked with the most.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687901018988176237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-52259030623546949602010-06-16T19:37:39.730-07:002010-06-16T19:37:39.730-07:00Thanks Pete, and I feel the same way about those b...Thanks Pete, and I feel the same way about those books. "Game Change" is the latest one. Second and third-hand conversations, unrecorded, unsourced - put in quotes? Always strikes me as weird.<br /><br />Was LeAnn still the sports editor when you were there?Doug Sovernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08282369357166949141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-83077356417199222982010-06-16T19:36:14.613-07:002010-06-16T19:36:14.613-07:00I'm really tired of responding to William, sin...I'm really tired of responding to William, since there doesn't seem to be much point and I've already answered most of his jabs, so this is the last time I will:<br /><br />Brown didn't bring up the Big Lie technique - it would have been inaccurate to suggest that he did, and it's not my place to guess what was in his head. <br /><br />But "Meg-abucks"? Ooh, that's good. Is that original? First time I've heard it. I want to use it - in fact, I want everyone to. Can I steal that?Doug Sovernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08282369357166949141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-23093865165230344992010-06-16T14:14:50.943-07:002010-06-16T14:14:50.943-07:00BTW, I just noticed you began your career as a cop...BTW, I just noticed you began your career as a copy boy at the NY Times. Me too, sort of. I worked in the Times sports department in 1985-86, after graduating from UC Berkeley....Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687901018988176237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-13654591250576841902010-06-16T14:08:55.283-07:002010-06-16T14:08:55.283-07:00Thanks for your reply, Doug. Your willingness to e...Thanks for your reply, Doug. Your willingness to engage is admirable and gives me additional confidence that you rendered those quotes accurately. Even better to hear is that you left out stuff you didn't feel you could quite capture with great accuracy -- that tells me you indeed do respect the sanctity of quotes.<br /><br />I think what set me off here is the trend in journalism toward quoting that which the journalist cannot be absolutely certain of. This happens a lot in the big fat best-selling books by the (admittedly great) journalists like Bob Woodward and Michael Lewis. They present whole conversations that they did not hear, nor for which there are any recordings, all based on the recollection of a source or sources. I think they are generally getting things right, but should they really be QUOTING people in such instances? I just think in this age in which reports become so quickly and widely disseminated and live forever, we have to be more careful than ever to be sure we are getting it right. Forever now people will be finding your quotes of Jerry Brown and treating them as though they are a perfect reflection of what he said. Not just a damn close one, but a perfect one. I'm glad you worked as hard as you clearly did to get them right.<br /><br />(And as an aside, I worked as a journalist, at the Press-Enterprise in Riverside and the Examiner back in the early '90s, and you are absolutely right that quotes are mangled by newspaper people all the time! It's a reason I wrote stories with fewer and shorter quotes than my editors were often comfortable with.)Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687901018988176237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-81275059557209960392010-06-16T10:33:03.869-07:002010-06-16T10:33:03.869-07:00Too bad that your thoughtfulness didn't make i...Too bad that your thoughtfulness didn't make it clear that Brown didn't call Whitman a Nazi, or provide the context of Goebbel's being most famous for the "Big Lie" theory of propaganda, or tell us when this encounter took place, how you had such specific quotes when you neither recorded it nor took notes, or how this went unremarked upon (no surprise, since there's generally no activity on this blog) until the Meg Whitman campaign blasted it out ...<br /><br />Oh, and nice try on the Miranda bit. Miranda is a staple of decades of movies and TV shows.<br /><br />Is Goebbels' Big Lie technique?<br /><br />Nope.<br /><br />It's just a staple of Meg-abucks political campaigns, like the one that used your blog to distract Brown right after the primary. I'm sure you were shocked ...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00550881127436182140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-86921987563791482392010-06-15T23:52:51.915-07:002010-06-15T23:52:51.915-07:00Fair enough, Pete. I will concede that it is cert...Fair enough, Pete. I will concede that it is certainly possible that I remembered a word or two here or there incorrectly. But what's between the quotes is how I remember it, verbatim. You might be surprised to know that many of the quotes you read in the paper every day are NOT 100% verbatim, accurate to the word. As a radio reporter who records events at which print reporters often just take notes (although more and more of them use digital voice recorders now), I am always amazed at the wide disparity between the way the "quotes" are given in the paper and what I have actually recorded the person saying.<br /><br />I may well have been off by a word or two here or there, but I can promise you the gist, the meaning and 99.9% of the words are accurate. I actually left out some other interesting things he said, over the objections of some colleagues, because I either wasn't sure I had the wording right, or I thought them less compelling.<br /><br />And yes, you're right, Brown's ability to dispute my accuracy is even less than my ability to report what he said, because for him, I'm sure this was a forgettable conversation that he didn't give a second thought until the Whitman campaign seized on my blog. But if I had been way off, I guarantee you, he would have denied or disputed them. I know I would, if someone misquoted me.Doug Sovernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08282369357166949141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-22562203807541861792010-06-15T19:35:16.771-07:002010-06-15T19:35:16.771-07:00Doug, I think it's totally cool that you blogg...Doug, I think it's totally cool that you blogged about your conversation with Jerry. No problem there. My qualm is with the amount of material you quoted. Let me ask you this: What do quote marks mean to you? Because to me, they mean what comes between them is verbatim what was spoken. You might have a damn good memory, but unless you can say—and how you could, I can't imagine—that you captured all those hundreds of words you quote Brown saying verbatim, you can't quote them. You can write about the incident. You can characterize what he said. You can quote particular phrases that you are 100 percent certain he said. But you can't quote several paragraphs. You just can't. Not as a journalist.<br /><br />Also: You write, "More importantly, Brown has confirmed that the conversation took place, and admits making the comments." Brown didn't record the conversation, either, so his ability to dispute the particulars of your story is limited. In addition, Brown's interest here isn't in judging whether you conformed to acceptable journalistic practice; his interest is in this story going away as soon as possible. To that end, his best strategy is to apologize and move on. That Brown hasn't disputed the accuracy of your quotes hardly verifies that you got the words exactly right.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687901018988176237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6296372923549214379.post-55773279227268332182010-06-14T05:32:21.049-07:002010-06-14T05:32:21.049-07:00Boy I wish we had this interesting a gubernatorial...Boy I wish we had this interesting a gubernatorial race to follow here in Texas. We also have the well-financed Republican candidate (in this case two governor wanna-bes from the right who won't go away even if we beg and plea nicely) against an aging, balding, former big city mayor on the left except our Democrat is about as anti-moonbeam as you can find. I guess Brown is just a more colorful hue of the rainbow than White? <br /><br />Californians can be semi-thankful your governors can make news talking about their opponents; ours have to threaten secession to stir up our voters.<br /><br />Interesting story and thanks for the blog coverage, Doug. So is your Miranda reference the pre-2010 Supreme Court ruling or the Roberts Court's Miranda interpretation?Craig in Texasnoreply@blogger.com